Classiq™

Find a better fit.

Classiq exists for one reason: to help everyone find a better mouthpiece fit.

The Classiq system allows interchanging 4 components:

  • a screw rim
  • a screw cup
  • a throat insert
  • a screw backbore

This allows for an unprecedently rapid fitting and testing process. The kit shown here, available at Vennture HQ, trade shows, retailers (coming soon!) and for private rentals for fitting events (like academic trumpet studios) can be configured into 13,500 unique combinations. It can accommodate all your trumpet needs – from a tiny cornet-shank piccolo setup to a giant bathtub cup and rotary trumpet backbore, an anything in between.

Now you can dial in your setup and test it, then tweak one element at a time. Think about it: have you ever tried your exact mouthpiece one throat size bigger and one throat size smaller? What if that tiny tweak improved it? You’d never know – because each of those tests would involve a special order non-returnable mouthpiece with a 6-week or more lead time. But now you can swap out throat inserts in 15 seconds and know right away. Ditto for

  • smaller or larger rim diameters (moving left or right in the racks)
  • shallower or deeper cups (moving back to front in the racks)
  • different rim profiles (5 different contours for each rim size)
  • bigger or smaller backbores (choose from 5 piston trumpet, 2 rotary trumpet, and 2 cornet shanks)

Classiq™ Modular Fitting System

Composition of the Kit

Screw Rims: 5 Inner Diameter Sizes X 5 Contours

There are 5 different inner rim diameters in the fit kit. They are:

  • 0.620″
  • 0.630″
  • 0.640″
  • 0.650″
  • 0.660″

Note that these rim diameters are measured at 0.095″ (2.41mm) depth from the crown of the rim. Note this is also where Parke measures their rims, and the threads (0.765″-36) are the same as well, so a .640″ Vennture rim is compatible with Parke 640 cup or underpart, and a 640 Parke rim is compatible with a .640″ Vennture cup. The following

Note that Marcinkiewicz measure their rim diameters ar .032″ (0.81mm) from the rim crown, and many other manufacturers measure theirs at .05″ (1.3mm) from the rim crown.

  • The P rim is a slightly flatter orchestral rim with crisp inner bite and more outer support than most. Parke fans may find it comfortable.
  • The Q rim has a very well-supported inner bite, making it play a bit smaller and with more rim support than other rims of the same nominal size.
  • The R rim is well-rounded on the inner rim in a way reminiscent of Bach and Greg Black designs, but with a bit more outer support than a typical Bach rim.
  • The S rim is very well-rounded on the inner rim for easy lip engagement but then peels away crisply to form a second bite. Fans of Stork Vacchiano rims may find this familiar.
  • The Z rim is a very wide supportive cushion rim. The inner rim is very rounded and the high point is farther out, funneling the chops in rather than wedging them apart. Reminsicent of (but in no way identical to) the Neill Sanders deisgn concepts of the 1960s and 70s and then used by David Hickman’s later designs.
Vennturi™ Screw Cups: 5 Inner Diameter Sizes X 6 Cup Volumes

Screw cups begin right  where the rims leave off at each of the five inner diameters listed above. There are 6 cup volumes available for each of the 5 diameters – for a total of 30 screw cups in the set. The cup volumes are:

Cup Volume (cu. in.) Cup Volume (cc)
0.060 0.98
0.065 1.07
0.070 1.15
0.075 1.23
0.080 1.31
0.085 1.39

Note that we talk in terms of cup volumes rather than cup depths or shapes. An interesting thing happened while we were designing Classiq™ in VennCAD™: we found that familiar shapes just happened as we attempted to hit certain volume targets at certain rim sizes while holding the throat point constant. So instead of “that looks like a (Bach) C-cup” or “that looks like a B-cup,” they just happen that way as the walls are bowed out and the floor pushed down to dial in a particular volume.

Talking about volume, and keeping it consistent between different rim sizes, means that, for example, a .07 cu.in. cup in a .630″ rim diameter will be deeper than a .07 cu. in. cup in a 0.650″ rim diameter. This is as it should be – the two are more acoustically similar than two cups of different rim sizes with the same depth.

Vennturi™ Throat Inserts: 10 Throat Sizes

The screw cup interfaces with the throat insert at a depth of 0.45″ (11.4mm) from the rim high point and a diameter of 0.182″ (4.62mm). From there, the Vennturi (get it?! It’s a venturi [i.e. fluid flow choke point] made by Vennture!) is engineered to taper smoothly down to the selected size, maintains that size for the designed cylindrical length, and begins the backbore flare up to a diameter of .173″ (4.39mm), which occurs at a point of depth of 0.9″ (22.9mm) from the rim high point.

These throat inserts are made in the following sizes:

Number

Inch mm
#28 0.1405 3.57
#27 0.1440 3.66
#26 0.1470 3.73
#25 0.1495 3.80
#24 0.1520 3.86
#23 0.1540 3.91
#22 0.1570 3.99
#21 0.1590 4.04
#20 0.1610 4.09
#19 0.1660 4.22

Vennturi Screw Backbores

These specially-designed backbores accept Vennturi™ throat inserts and then thread into Classiq™ screw cups.

There are a number of designs for several different playing use cases. The T- backbores are for piston trumpets in all keys. The R- backbores are for rotary trumpets. And the C- backbores have cornet shanks and are useful either for cornet-shank piccolo trumpets or for American/orchestral-style cornet playing.

Backbore Volume (cu. in.) Volume (cc)
T0 0.131 2.15
T1 0.138 2.26
T2 0.144 2.36
T3 0.152 2.48
T4 0.156 2.55
R1 0.168 2.75
R2 0.180 2.94
C1 0.094 1.53
C2 0.096 1.57

 

How to Fit Yourself

The recommended fitting sequence is:

  • determine a reasonable starting point
  • try the 5 different rim profiles to find the one that initially seems most comfortable.
  • try a diameter size up and diameter size down from your starting point to see if either of these is an improvement. If one direction is getting better, keep going until you’ve gone too far, then take one step back.
  • try one cup volume bigger and one smaller. Again – if it’s getting better, chase it until you’ve gone too far, then come back.
  • same method for backbore
  • and then again for throat.

Some general tips:

  • Never be afraid to try something! It takes just a moment, and the learning is valuable.
  • Listen carefully! Pay attention to timbre, pitch, efficiency.
  • If it sounds better and feels better, it is better! If your endurance suffers a little – don’t worry, you will acclimate.
Finding a Starting Point

Use the table below to find reasonable starting inner diameter,  cup volume, and backbore.

If you know your preferred throat size, start there. Otherwise, #26 is a reaonable starting point.

The P  rim contour is reasonable starting point for many. It is a good basis of comparison and contrast when you try the other 4 (which you definitely should!)

This table will allow you to find approximate starting points for your fitting:

 

 

 

 

 

Finding the Right Rim Contour

Do try all 5 contours!

  • Note that the ones with more inner rim support play a bit smaller than others with more rounded inner rim.
  • Pay attention to how it feels.
  • Too sharp an inner bite may cause discomfort
  • Too flat a contour may limit flexibility or compromise articulation
  • If something feels off, try to put into words how you would fix it: “I want more outer rim support” or “I want the high point farther in/farther out” or “there’s a hot spot over my wonky tooth.” Then, you will notice if another profile fixes this. If none does, Vennture can EASILY incorporate the fix you just articulated into a custom profile. You can even do it yourself – VennCAD is SO powerful.
Finding the Right Rim Diameter

The right rim diameter is all about the right support for your chops and the way you play. Always try a size bigger and a size smaller than what you think you need, just to be sure.

Pro tip: for a quick-and-dirty test, adjacent-sized (i.e. .01″ bigger or smaller) rims mate well enough with a given cup. This allows you to try a bigger or smaller rim diameter without having to swap out cups and backbores and all.

Note: If you believe you are in-between rim sizes in the kit, this is easily handled! When you order your components or one-piece, there is a custom rim diameter option. So if you feel like you are exactly in between a 0.630″ and 0.640″ size, for example, choose “custom” and type in 0.635. If you are closer to the 0.630″ you could do 0.633, or 0.637 if you are closer to the 0.640″. At this point we are literally splitting hairs (an average human hair is about 0.007″ in diameter). These “custom” sizes are made to order (i.e. not in inventory), which takes about 3 weeks. But there is no additional charge for this!

Finding the Right Cup Volume

As with everything else, test deeper and shallower cups to gain learning!

You may find that you will need throat and backbore changes to balance cups of different depths.

Note that, if you find you desire something between cup volume sizes included in the kit, you can specify a custom made-to-order cup volume either in a one-piece or screw cup order. If .070 cu in is too shallow and .075 cu in is too deep, consider entering .072 or .073 cu in. There is no extra charge for this! VennCAD™ makes it super easy for us to offer this.

Finding the Right Throat & Backbore

We treat these here together, because throat and backbore form a unit: both physically (in that you insert the Vennturi™ throat insert into the backbore before screwing the backbore into the screw cup) and acoustically.

The throat of course creates a pinch point in the whole acoustic system. A tighter throat offers more resistance: something to “push against.” Ditto with a tighter backbore, though to a lesser extent.

The bigger impact of both is in terms of tone color and pitch:

  • a smaller throat and larger backbore will tend to make the sound brighter by emphasizing higher overtones. They will also tend to spread the octaves; thus, if middle C is in tune, high C may tend sharp.
  • a larger throat and smaller backbore will tend to make the sound more diffuse and dark by emphasizing the fundamental. They will also tend to compress the octaves; thus, if middle C is in tune, high C may tend flat.

After some experimentation, you will arrive at the optimal combination of throat and backbore for your playing situation. Note that switching between instruments of different keys may be accomodated by a change of throat and/or backbore. You can purchase different throat inserts and/or backbores to accomodate your different horns. Remember: the only thing better than a shiny new Classiq™ mouthpiece is multiple shiny new Classiq™ mouthpieces!

How to Purchase

Once you have dialed in your setups, you can purchase Classiq™ below in 4-piece component form, or in a one-piece version. The component form may be economical for fitting multiple instruments: you may find that a simple change of throat and/or backbore may be all that is needed in going from, for example, Bb to C trumpet. In this way, you can cover multiple instruments by adding only a handful of components. On the other hand, one piece models may be more convenient – nothing to assemble, nothing to keep track of, and you can leave them inserted in their instruments for instant changeover during performances. Finally, note that Vennture can make other configurations (e.g. underparts for screw rims,  conventional screw tops inculding rim and throat, and conventional backbores including throats) as custom orders in order to mate up with existing gear.